Curse

mappam · Jan 16, 2011, 03:52 PM // 15:52

I have looked at all of the builds I can find - and all seem to be "end-game" or for higher level characters.

Is there anywhere that gives some guides for lower level builds and combo's? Or a walkthru on how to progress with the Ranger?

I have 2 Rangers - one R/E and R/N - these are "older" and I have forgotten how to really play them on return to this game (and adding Nightfall and EofN). So much has changed I am wondering if I should change the 2nd profession to make a more viable character?

Thanks in advance for any and all links or suggestions.

Perkunas · Jan 16, 2011, 05:26 PM // 17:26

No need to delete to change 2nd profession. After you ascend your character, you will able to change your secondary, at will. As far as builds for low levels, just use what you find during game play. IMO, "builds" don't mean much until you ascend your character and you start capping elite skills.

Jesuve · Jan 16, 2011, 05:57 PM // 17:57

You shouldn't worry about your build too much yet. Just go, level up, get more skills and then worry about your build.

Voodoo Rage · Jan 16, 2011, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Rangers are nice because you really don't need to stress about the build as you move up. Just try out lots of different skills and don't worry about it. I would only use ranger skills (ignore your secondary for now). If you find you are running out of energy during fights, you probably need more points in expertise.

mappam · Jan 16, 2011, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Thanks for the advice - I really appreciate it all.

I just played my R/E and it seems like the Ele Fire skills are better than the ranger ones - am I imagining this?

I switched back and forth a bit and "we" did better in harder fights with my using Fire than Bow skills.

Character is only lvl 14 and ATM in EofN area.

LifeInfusion · Jan 16, 2011, 07:48 PM // 19:48

As a ranger you get your best skill at the beginning: d-shot (Tohn (Kamadan, Jewel of Istan) ; Disruption (Shing Jea Monastery); Charr Reinforcements (Piken Square) ). It goes downhill from there.

Lightning Reflexes isn't all that bad but it's redundant unless your team doesn't know what prots are. The other decent skills are Sloth Hunter's Shot and Savage Shot. Pin Down is useful or PvP but not so much for PvE. Frozen soil sees use only in Slaver's exile and places where ressing is so rampant you can't just blitzkrieg/zerg them. Choking Gas + Practiced Stance is of no use in Hard mode, little use even in normal mode due to low amount of 2 second casts outside of elementalists. You have Broadhead arrow (dodgable...) , Burning arrow (not so great in pve). I had someone try to convince me Sundering attack + penetrating attack+ Asuran Scan was godly before... still not convinced.

You could pull gimmicky stuff like Asuran Scan + I am the strongest! + Ebon Vanguard Standard of Honor. That's 3 slots right there.

d-shot, savage shot, Asuran Scan + I am the strongest! + Ebon Vanguard Standard of Honor, +3 skills.

For a defensive setup run Barrage + "Save Yourselves!".

In all seriousness, rangers are yearning for a buff right now. Splinter Barrage works better on a Rt/R, so to me that's not exactly a ranger build (same for EoE). R/E conjure barrage? R/Mo with Judge's insight is a farce due to the energy to upkeep it. Neither is impressive since you waste attribute points. Anything with Volley is likely to be better on a nonranger save for Grenth's Grasp/Ebon Dust Aura, since Mysticism sucks. Keen arrow is the best example of ranger skills better off on nonrangers.

I guess you could make a case with Incendiary Arrows + Read the Wind and other + damage preps such as Expert Focus,Apply Poison (crap in HM), or Kindle Arrows (crap in HM). Glass Arrows with no AoE doesn't amaze me.

Most other builds rely on pets (and Never Rampage Alone), which have terrible AI. You have pets with scythes, pets with daggers, pets with spears, hammers, axes, anything but bows...

There's also Lightning reflex + Dwarven stability R/D scythe spam, which is essentially a fake crit scythe A/D.

You know that phrase, "be a first rate version of yourself instead of a second rate version of someone else"? Well what if a first rate version of yourself (ranger) is a second rate version of someone else? I leave you with that thought.

Chthon · Jan 16, 2011, 10:47 PM // 22:47

The reasons that there are no low level builds posted for anything is that they are not needed.

Kunder · Jan 16, 2011, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

For a defensive setup run Barrage + "Save Yourselves!".

In all seriousness, rangers are yearning for a buff right now. Splinter Barrage works better on a Rt/R, so to me that's not exactly a ranger build (same for EoE).

Run R/W SY and have a rit cast Splinter Weapon @ 16 channeling. Thats pretty much the best build rangers have at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I guess you could make a case with Incendiary Arrows + Read the Wind and other + damage preps such as Expert Focus,Apply Poison (crap in HM), or Kindle Arrows (crap in HM). Glass Arrows with no AoE doesn't amaze me.

Ignite Arrows + Incendiary Arrows actually isn't too bad. The trick is that EBSoH will buff the damage of every individual packet. Taking BUH you have a half-damage splinter weapon buff that never ends and is true AoE (no limit on number of enemies hit). Unfortunately you can't abuse it nearly as well as you would like due to IA's 5s recharge and low hit number. You can try to make up for it with things like Triple Shot and IAS, but energy is hard to control and they don't do enough.

Fay Vert · Jan 17, 2011, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

High level ranger build stuff.

Ignore that advice.

LifeInfusion · Jan 18, 2011, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Ignore that advice.

That's rather rude. The staple skills: D-shot, Savage shot are all available in the starting areas. Even Acolyte Jin has Lightning Reflexes... Michiko (Kaineng Center) or Medando (Yohlon Haven) are really early on. Savage Shot is given at Masaharu (Seitung Harbor), Michiko (Kaineng Center), Zuwarah (Command Post).

Pin Down is given as part of Snaring Course (Shing Jea Monastery), Primary Training (Churrhir Fields) and if not, Michiko (Kaineng Center) or Tohn (Kamadan, Jewel of Istan) have it.

Captain Osric (Yak's Bend) has Penetrating Attack; Masaharu (Seitung Harbor), Michiko (Kaineng Center) have Sundering Attack.

Winter is given at Firstwatch Sergio (Lion's Arch).

Apply Poison can be obtained at Zhao Di (Shing Jea Monastery), Michiko (Kaineng Center), Medando (Yohlon Haven).

Never Rampage alone is given at Sunspear Great Hall for the pet builds.

Michiko (Kaineng Center) has Antidote Signet.

Micah Fergson (Eye of the North) has Expert Focus, Sloth Hunter's Shot. You can get there by the time you reach Consulate Docks/ Kaineng Center/Lion's Arch.

Don't tell me stapling d-shot on your bar is bad advice.

Rites · Jan 18, 2011, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

The reasons that there are no low level builds posted for anything is that they are not needed.

Chthon-- we know you think you are an "elitist", but stop being an arrogant idiot. if you don't remember any "early level" or beginner ranger builds, then you should not have posted

As for the OP, http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...t10261054.html this is a basic guide and even has early builds

maxxfury · Jan 18, 2011, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

That's rather rude.

I think Fay meant that all the talk of elite skills and pve skills is a little misplaced for a baby ranger..who is wanting to level up and wouldnt have access to the pve skills yet(at least not at anything like a decent level if at all) and elite skills which will be a little way off ^ as thats mostly for higher level or a more advanced ranger toon)...

just put a little bluntly *shrugs* even if the info will be good for later on...

Voodoo Rage · Jan 18, 2011, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

Chthon-- we know you think you are an "elitist", but stop being an arrogant idiot. if you don't remember any "early level" or beginner ranger builds, then you should not have posted

As for the OP, http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...t10261054.html this is a basic guide and even has early builds

I think I got what he was saying. Like I posted too, the ranger is pretty forgiving at low levels. You really do have a lot of freedom to try out lots of different skills without completely screwing up. So instead of saying "here's a build", I would just recommend trying out different skills and getting a feel for what they do.

Ultimately you want to get a feel for the mechanics of the profession, namely all of the different ways you can make your arrows "do stuff". You are allowed to use a both single preparation and a single stance, but only one of each. You also want to understand that points in expertise lower the cost of your ranger skills. You want to understand that there are "break" points with expertise where a 10 energy skill will cost you 7 energy at 7 expertise, still 7 at 8 expertise, but drop to 6 energy at 9 expertise.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Expertise

I would highly advise not worrying too much about your secondary profession or putting ANY points there for now. You WILL be able to change your secondary later so you can try all sorts of fun stuff like rituals, daggers, and scythes. But for now, the best thing you can do is get good with a bow. I would pull all my points in marksmanship and expertise and maybe exploring some of the wilderness survival stuff later but not at the expense of ever dropping your marksmanship/expertise below 9.

Go ahead and get a pet, and you can probably go ahead and take him along with you to let him level up but I wouldn't expect anything out of him other than dying now and then and screwing you up with a 10 second skill downtime.

LifeInfusion · Jan 18, 2011, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

I think Fay meant that all the talk of elite skills and pve skills is a little misplaced for a baby ranger..who is wanting to level up and wouldnt have access to the pve skills yet(at least not at anything like a decent level if at all) and elite skills which will be a little way off ^ as thats mostly for higher level or a more advanced ranger toon)...

just put a little bluntly *shrugs* even if the info will be good for later on...

Elites can be unlocked with Elite Tomes + 3K balthazar faction. It's a fairly common practice.

If not, Burning Arrow from Admiral Chiggen (Marga Coast) is the second main zone in Elona. (About level 16 to 19 you can get there) You can get Barrage from Commander Kubeh (Arkjok Ward, during The Great Escape) which is even before that.

In Factions Broad Head arrow is from The Afflicted Huan (Vizunah Square (mission), Sunjiang District (explorable)) which is the first zone off the island or the first zone Elonian/Tyrian players encounter.

You can access EoTN at level 10.

The OP didn't specify how low level. However, from personal experience level 15 takes about 9 hours in Nightfall to get to the point in the game where capping the above is a possibility, less for Factions. Anything before Mainland Elona/Cantha is still newbie-land where builds don't even matter much.

Chthon · Jan 18, 2011, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

Chthon-- we know you think you are an "elitist", but stop being an arrogant idiot. if you don't remember any "early level" or beginner ranger builds, then you should not have posted

As usual, you miss the point. Voodoo Rage gets it.

The point of all normal mode PvE up until maybe the last two or four missions in each campaign is to learn the mechanics and the execution-level skills of GW. The devs purposely made the monsters easy enough that they can generally be tackled through execution alone, even with the really poor skillset you get on the first play through with nothing unlocked. To give a couple examples: Great Northern Wall teaches you, very heavy-handedly, to retreat when badly outnumbered (this isn't D2); Elona Reach teaches you to pull and take on one mob at a time; Thirsty River teaches you to stay on target and gank the healer. Not only does your build not matter, but a good build (or a bunch of heroes and PvE skills) can actually be counterproductive if it can power you through the mission the "wrong way" without learning the lesson it was meant to teach. So, like I said, low level builds aren't needed; they don't matter. OP should focus on learning the things that do matter -- pulling, kiting, positioning, body-blocking, retreating, aggro, tanking (and why it's generally a poor idea), monster AI, hero/hench AI, damage mechanics, armor mechanics, prot mechanics, projectile mechanics, melee mechanics, spirit and minion mechanics, IAS mechanics, buff mechanics, debuff mechanics, removal mechanics, etc.

It's better to reach the end of your first NM PvE campaign with a bad build and a hard-earned half-decent understanding of how the game works than with a half-decent build copied from wiki and a poor understanding of how the game works.

Voodoo Rage · Jan 18, 2011, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

It's better to reach the end of your first NM PvE campaign with a bad build and a hard-earned half-decent understanding of how the game works than with a half-decent build copied from wiki and a poor understanding of how the game works.

Just to illustrate this point, when I first started I asked for a build for my R/N (coincidently). My friend told me that unfortunately since I choose /N, I "have to be" a TOUCH RANGER and gave me the build. Sure, I managed to slog my way to the Ring of Fire but literally I learned NOTHING about the game other than mashing 1,2,3 over and over again. I really wish someone had given me the advice to just stick with the bow and learn about the game.

Kunder · Jan 19, 2011, 06:19 AM // 06:19

My first characters that I played (almost concurrently) were an Ele and a Ranger. The first time I partied with another player was to go across the wall in Pre-Searing on my Ranger. The second time was for LDD. Masochism like that is how you make good players. Relying on other people makes you weak.

mappam · Jan 19, 2011, 03:40 PM // 15:40

You guys are Amazing! Soo much knowledge and expertise!

I see what you are all saying and I have much to learn on the actual "game play".

Things usually happen too fast for me to analyze what is happening with each bow shot or "1-2-3" click. I have been trying to just make it thru the mission to finish it and move on. I never stopped to think about "what" I was doing.

My objective has been to survive an encounter with the mobs and move on to finish. I have been so caught up in that aspect that I missed WHAT each spell or click did.......

What is a Good Way to learn? How to see what attack or stance etc is actually doing? How to know what to put into the hotbar for each mission/quest?

I can't imagine having the knowledge you all have!!!! Thanks for sharing with me.

Deadly addiction · Jan 23, 2011, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Thing is, there aren't any specific low level builds since it can take less than a day to hit level 20. Also, since the addition of tomes, it is easy (if you have the money) to acquire an elite skill before reaching the areas where you can kill the boss & capture the skill.

Quote:

What is a Good Way to learn? How to see what attack or stance etc is actually doing? How to know what to put into the hotbar for each mission/quest?

If you want to learn more about skills, there's this : http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_ranger_skills . It offers a descriptions of all ranger skills.
When you're choosing your skills, you often compare the damage (if it is the case), the recharge time, the additional effects and, to a lesser extent, the energy cost (since you're a ranger, your primary attribute Expertise reduces the energy cost as you invest more points in it).
As a ranger, your skill bar should look like this (I'm not saying it's the only possibility!):

3-4 attack skills, of which 1-2 are interrupts and the rest damage
an IAS stance (increased attack speed)
a preparation (eg. Ignite Arrows or Kindle Arrows are good for a start)
a utility skill (Throw Dirt, Antidote Signet, block stances, speed buffs) or a self-heal (Troll Unguent)
a resurrection skill

This is a pretty general build - if you want to personalize for missions and quests, the GW wikis around sometimes offer advices in the mission walkthroughs (same goes for quests): http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mission

Quote:

I just played my R/E and it seems like the Ele Fire skills are better than the ranger ones - am I imagining this?

I switched back and forth a bit and "we" did better in harder fights with my using Fire than Bow skills.

The reason you do more damage with your Elementalist skills is that Eles, by default, are (supposed to be) the nukers of the game. But since you're a Ranger primary, you will run out of energy fast (since spells are not affected by Expertise) and therefore you'll only do more damage in the first moments of the battle. Which is pretty bad if the fight doesn't end quick.
Being a jack of all trades, the ranger doesn't have a very clear purpose in PvE. Effective bow builds usually revolve around the elite skill Barrage (or Incendiary Arrows), since single-target attack skills don't particularly shine without damage buffs. A lot of their skills involve spreading conditions, interrupting and survival - more effective in PvP than PvE.

I hope this will been useful

Chthon · Jan 24, 2011, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by mappam

You guys are Amazing! Soo much knowledge and expertise!

I see what you are all saying and I have much to learn on the actual "game play".

Things usually happen too fast for me to analyze what is happening with each bow shot or "1-2-3" click. I have been trying to just make it thru the mission to finish it and move on. I never stopped to think about "what" I was doing.

My objective has been to survive an encounter with the mobs and move on to finish. I have been so caught up in that aspect that I missed WHAT each spell or click did.......

What is a Good Way to learn? How to see what attack or stance etc is actually doing? How to know what to put into the hotbar for each mission/quest?

I can't imagine having the knowledge you all have!!!! Thanks for sharing with me.

I've been avoiding your question because it's a hard one to answer. But since people have decided to start giving bad advice (sorry, Deadly addiction, but just about everything you said was not correct), I guess I had better give it a shot:

1. Begin by learning the universe of mechanics that exist in GW. Try to get a broad view of all the things that are possible within the game world. Don't worry so much about the details of any one mechanic just yet -- start by just learning that they exist.

For example, let's break down the different mechanics that could be at play when you shoot one arrow at a monster:

First, how quickly you fire the arrow is going to depend on your bow's inherent attack speed, and any increased attack speed buffs (enchantments, stances, shouts, weapon spells, preparations, glyphs, spirit effects, wards, wells, and generic skills) on you, any decreased attack speed debuffs (hexes, conditions, spirit effects, wards, wells, and generic skills) and possibly a fixed activation time from a particular bow attack. Next, how quickly the arrow flies is going to be affected by your bow's inherent flight speed and possibly flight speed buffs or a particular bow attack with a modified flight speed. Now the arrow could hit, miss, or get blocked. Why? You can miss simply because the target moved before the arrow got there, or because of a chance-to-miss debuff on you, or, rarely, because of a attacks-against-me-miss buff on the target. If the arrow is blocked, that implies a chance-to-block buff on the target. You may have an unblockablity buff or bow attack that causes you to hit even though the target blocked. Now, assume the arrow hit. Did you get critical hit? Your chance to critical is determined by your base crit chance (derived from your level, the target's level, and your mastery rank), any improved-crit-chance buffs on you, possibly a cannot-crit debuff on you, and possibly a cannot-be-crit-against buff on the target. So, the arrow hit; how much damage does it do? This depends on your weapon's base damage, your weapon's damage modifiers, whether or not you got a critical hit, various increased damage or +damage buffs on you, the target's armor level, various damage mitigation buffs on your target, and various increased-damage-against or +damage-against debuffs on the target. Now, assume you happen to have a pet with you; how will its AI react? It will pause for a moment, then rush to attack your target unless you set it to heel, or lock its target on another monster, or (if there is no combat going on yet) you take a quick step backwards before your pet moves forward. Let's assume you have Koss in your party; how does he react?... What about the monster; how does its AI react to getting hit?... How about the monster's allies?... As you can see this could go on for quite awhile, but you get the point.

And that's not even an exhaustive account of a single arrow, much less the entire game. As you can see, just getting familiar with what mechanics even exist is quite a project. There's several ways to go about this. You can simply play the game and pay attention to what happens. Whenever something happens that you didn't expect or can't explain, look in wiki or post here in Questions and Answers. You can also gain a lot early on simply by hitting the "random article" button on wiki or browsing the forums here (though in both cases you have to be wary of incorrect information posted by users who don't know any better).

A very large focus early in the learning process should be on the monster AI. It's predictable. Learn how to predict it. Learn how to create situations where it will behave stupidly.

2. Step two is to learn the specifics of every mechanic - what exactly is the process that happens and what are the ultimate numbers (dmg, healing, seconds, meters, % chance, etc.) that pop out at the end. Well, realistically, you'd have to be highly addicted to the game (like me) to learn the details of every mechanic, but you should at least learn how the important ones work. Also, don't worry if step 2 gets muddled up with step 1 a bit - it's impossible to keep them completely separate.

Like everything in every computer program, the "how" of everything in GW is simply a math equation. Most of the important equations are posted on the wiki or here in the forums. The most advanced mathematical topic involved seems to be logarithms, so a tenth-grade education should be enough to get you through the math. (It certainly helps to have experience as a programmer, so you can ask yourself how you would have made a program do X, but it's not necessary.)

At the end of steps one and two, you should find yourself able to answer the question "what would happen if X?" with an exact, numeric answer for many common in-game situations.

3. Step 3 is to refocus your knowledge on a goal. If step one was to count the trees in the forest, and step two was to study each tree individually, step three is to remember the forest.

Remember what your win and lose conditions are:

Your win condition is usually a variant on "kill all the monsters" or "kill monster X (and also kill anything in the way)" or "get from point X to point Y (and kill anything in the way)," or "deliver item/escort NPC from X to point Y (and kill anything in the way)." What does that tell you? It should tell you that killing as many monsters as quickly as possible should be one of your primary goals.

Your lose conditions are usually some variant on "everybody died," or "everybody died with 60%DP," or "Prince Rurick died." That should tell you that your other primary goals should be preventing red bars from going down and pushing red bars back up, so that your team doesn't die.

Everything else is not of direct importance. Such things may be of indirect importance if they have an impact on your ability to do the things of direct importance, but they are not valuable in and of themselves. As a general rule, every skill you bring and every action you take should (1) deal damage, or (2) mitigate damage, or (3) heal up damage, or (4) indirectly improve your ability to do 1, 2, or 3 better than another skill or action that does 1, 2, or 3 or directly. (Example of 4: Adrenaline management skills are worthless on their own, but can be used to improve your ability to mitigate damage with the very potent mitigation skill "Save Yourselves!" by far more than you could mitigate by instead spending those skillslots on inferior mitigation skills.) Ranger players, more than players of other classes it seems, have a bad tendency to do worthless things an pretend that they are providing their party with "utility" or "support." Don't fall into this delusion.

You may notice two shifts I made in the last couple paragraphs that I am now going to address clumsily at the end because I couldn't fit them in smoothly above. (1) Eventually the focus of the learning process shifts to making good builds. (Build = skillbar+attribute spread+armor+weapons) However, that's not the starting point. If you don't understand the mechanics first, you simply won't be able to make good builds. (2) GW is a team game and ultimately you need to look at things on the team level. 8 players using absolutely perfect damage-dealing builds will die a horrible death because no one heals. 8 excellent healers and/or mitigators won't be able to kill anything. Sometimes something that makes your individual build worse can make the team better overall. (Example: A Dervish unquestionably gets better damage from using Aura of Holy Might than Ebon Battle Standard of Honor. However, if the team includes necromancers using Order of Pain, Barbs, and Mark of Pain (none of which work with Aura of Holy Might), and/or undead minions (which would benefit from EBSoHonor), then the team would benefit overall from using EBSoHonor even though its a worse skill from the perspective of the Dervish alone.)

I hope that at least some of this proves to be useful for you now, and maybe some more of it will make sense a little later. Good luck.